PARKS, RECREATION AND COMMUNITY RESOURCES
ADVISORY COMMISSION
MINUTES OF THE MAY 4, 2004 MEETING
The meeting was called to order by Howard Fishman at 7:00 p.m.
Roll Call
Present: Commissioners Fishman, Bell, Francis, and Sigler
Absent: Commissioner Hollander
Also Present: Steve Burrell, City Manager; Lisa Lynn, Supervisor, Community Resources Department; Colette Portela, Administrative Assistant Community Resources Department; Mike Flaherty, Superintendent Public Works
Flag Salute
Comissioner Steve Francis led the flag salute.
Motion: "To approve as submitted."
Francis/Sigler - All Ayes
Correspondence
Letter from Agnes Slater, "Friends of Park" President, extending her gratitude to the Community Resources Department and the Commissioners for all of their support and efforts towards the organization.
Letter from a parent whose child participated in the Spring Day Camp program. She was commending the Camp Counselors for the program that they had during Spring Break.
Public Comment:
N/A
Matters for Commission Consideration
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Coming forward to address the Comission on this item were:
- Mr. Mazirow, 2918 The Strand
- - said he has lived on there since 1986. His house and patio face the two volleyball courts in front of his home and stated that his family cannot carry on a normal conversation. He would like to ask for relocation of the courts 75' west of the strand wall. He recognizes that the beach is a public place but also that there are rights of others, such as residents, that are part of our community. The first volleyball court is 23' west of the wall and from time to time, particularly on the prime days of Saturday and Sunday afternoons, the courts are heavily used. The volleyball players are enthusiastic and vocal in support and criticism of their team members and having a great time. The noise generated by the players is affecting his ability to use his patio. They have to leave this area because the noise is too much and this happens with sufficient regularity. This has happened since last summer. He would like the volleyball courts be moved 75' west of the wall to reduce the noise that would be dissipated by the mere difference of the air current. The 23' is not within the rules of the commission itself; it was "grandfathered" in. The courts from the west of the wall range in area from 19' to 112' up and down the Strand. There's no consistency, though there's more at the 50' level. So there can't be anything really special about a 23' distance from the wall. Someone made a decision sometime in the past that that's the way it's been. He thanked the commission for their consideration.
- . Mike, 1721 Monterey
- - stated that Reader's Digest just named Hermosa Beach as the #1 beach, nationally. These courts at 29th and throughout the beach are a significant part of what makes Hermosa Beach so great. He believes that non-volleyball players don't appreciate the significance of moving the courts that type of distance towards the water. The wind is a great factor the closer the courts are to the water. Moving both courts that close to the water would make the furthest court unusable most of the time because of the wind and it compromises the other court as well. Not to mention that there is more maintenance involved because you have more moisture in the sand and you have to replace the poles more often. He stated that other strand-front homeowners do not want the courts moved. It would be his hope that if someone chooses to live on strand-front property, they take the activity level of the strand and the beach into account. Rather than try to change the character of the beach they should accept that activity level. He asked Commission to consider what sort of presidented decision like this would set even beyond volleyball if someone does not like certain aspects of the community, what's next.
- Todd, 2711 187th St., Redondo Beach
- - stated he has been playing on the courts since 1985. People move to these locations and they know the courts are there. These are public places. There are literally hundreds of people that play volleyball at these courts throughout the year and for one person to make a statement that they wish the volleyball courts to be move would affect a lot of people and is very unfair.
- Christy Hahn, 2800 Strand
- - stated that she feels that the wind is the main issue. The main court is the closer court of the two to the wall because there is less wind. She suggests that maybe the guys could just tone it down a little bit and keep the neighborhood in mind in terms of the noise and we could all just get along fine.
- Aaron Castro, 2827 Manhattan Ave
- - said that he's been playing volleyball there since 1996 and they used to have an older gentleman that used to watch them play every week. His name was Charlie and he recently passed away. He and his wife used to love to watch the players and his daughter signed a letter to the fact that they do not want the volleyball courts moved.
- Mike McToole, 946 9th Street
- - said that he and his wife are new residents as of April 30th, 2004. One of the things that drew them to Hermosa Beach that he moved here three years ago from the East Coast and they certainly don't have the type of activities and the beach that Hermosa has. This afforded him the opportunity to make a whole new group of friends. It's not just the volleyball players who go down to play, its people that want to go to the beach. He stated that the wind again is the main factor. If you move the courts out further towards the water, it will be unplayable.
- Matt Williamson, 449 28th Street
- - said that the lifestyle of Hermosa and the privilege to use these courts is a big deal to many people enjoy them and spend a lot of time there. The courts were put where they are for a reason and the maintenance and time it takes to dig the holes to replace the poles is part of the problem. He states he has no problem toning down his antics if that is a problem that the neighborhood is viewing. The relativity of the courts to the strand is a huge deal during the Carson Olympic Qualifier during the end of the summer last year. There were a lot of international players who were practicing in Hermosa and this was because our courts were in such good locations.
- Mazirow (approached the podium again)
- - stated that he doesn't want to offend his neighbors and people who are so close to him. The problem is that there's noise being made that makes it difficult for his family to sit out on their patio. He stated that he's been there since 1986 and at that time the courts in front of his house weren't there. In respect to the wind, rarely is there a wind factor in the summertime, which prevents anybody from staying on the beach. He cannot understand what the problem is with a 23' move of the courts. He stated that "toning down" the noise is not going to work. They're young, enthusiastic, they play hard volleyball and he doesn't want them to worry about whether Mazirow says it's too loud or not. He still feels that a reasonable distance will solve the problem automatically. He also stated he knows which direction noise comes from and is familiar with the steps leading down to the beach at 30th Place. The noise is not coming from there.
Commissioner Bell asked staff what was the reason that 50' was chosen for the distance of the volleyball courts.
Public Works Superintendent Flaherty stated that 50' was the compromise back in 1996, 88 and the 70's. This was the compromised position the Commission took in 1996, along with also changing the other core rules such as applications for courts. The 50' was agreed upon because the volleyball players agreed that the wind was a factor. If you go to the north end, you realize that the strand is closer to the water than the south end. Up to 16th Street they were successful in dealing with everyone to moving them to 50'. This distance was a compromise with the people who had issues with noise and the volleyball players who had issues with going too far out on the beach.
Commissioner Sigler stated that the wind is a huge factor and another 50' will make a huge difference in terms of the wind affecting their games. Nobody wants to play on the courts closest to the water. Players are using a lighter ball and when played in the wind, it makes the ball move a lot more and level play goes down significantly the closer you get to the water.
- Christy Hahn (approached the podium again)
- - said they have made an effort to keep the courts nice. When you talk about 50' the court near the ocean is going to be really toward the ocean and its already a marginal court to play on.
- George Kilroy, 641 Longfellow
- - stated that he's been playing there for nine years. If they had to move the courts, the tradition that they've built would no longer exist and they'd dissipate and play at other courts. They are here because they really think that would be the end of it. He expressed appreciation for the democratic spirit of this public forum.
- Dennis Fernandez, 1816 Stanford, Redondo Beach
- - said that he lived at 920 The Strand in Manhattan Beach for three years and he can related to Mr. Mazirow to a certain degree in that when he lived on the Strand, right by the pier, it was very noisy. There were nights that he couldn't sleep because of the noise and it was just part of the deal. The people that have come tonight are probably the majority of the people that play on that court and are truly passionate about it. They want to be reasonable about this too and he thinks there is common ground and it would be great for them to get together with Mr. Mazirow and hopefully work it out.
- Matt (approached the podium again)
- - stated that one thing is that we're kind of close to Manhattan and a lot of people that live there have started playing volleyball on the two courts in question because those two courts provide them the opportunity to come into a group that accepts people and allows them to play. By moving them out, they're going to lose that as well.
Commission closed the public hearing and thanked all respondents for their comments and suggestions and asked for comments from the Commission.
Commissioner Francis stated that he lives at 300 block of 25th Street. He's not a volleyball player but obviously lives there because he enjoys the beach. He wanted to clarify the distance that last court would start about 45' from the western edge of the first court. As far as noise abatement, there's no way to police that. He agrees that the beach is a public facility much like Valley Park and does give people privilege to use the facility. It does also ask the people to respect the rights of others around them, whether they're residents on the Strand or people laying on beach blankets next to the courts.
Commission Sigler stated that of course wind would be a factor if the courts were moved another 50'. He agreed that its' a group of people, a social outing, and when you move the courts out that far it makes it a lot tougher and does deteriorate the social atmosphere. You're not having as much fun and the people might start dispersing and move to other courts. The best idea would be to get together and work this through.
Commissioner Bell stated that there's no way you can police the noise but try to keep it down. He's inclined to leave the courts alone.
Commissioner Fishman had a question for staff. He's looking at the inventory of where the courts are presently and the one that we're discussing is at the 2909 Strand and it appears that to the south of that there's a court at 2728 and then to the north of that there's a court at 3108. So apparently there are courts to the north and south of this and then there seems to be a gap between two courts and so the question is in theory, in moving the court, going west towards the ocean, could this court be moved either to the north or the south and move it away from the direct path of his home. Is this something that we can look at.
Department Supervisor Lynn stated that one part of the policy to be made aware of is that we can only have two courts per strand block. The only option is 28th. But that decision cannot be made tonight, it's a completely separate item.
Commissioner Fishman stated he's just trying to explore some other alternatives to try to work something out for both parties. His feeling is if there's an option to perhaps move the court to the south and keep it at 23' distance if possible that might be something to work with both parties. From the commission point of view, is this something they might want to continue or they could take a vote tonight.
Commissioner Sigler said that if he would probably opt for moving both courts out as opposed to moving one court out and then moving another one a block down because then you're kind of splitting everyone up. One block is a pretty far distance. They're a fun group of people and they don't want to walk a whole other block down to play at another court. Moving the court would take away to whole social fabric of what they're trying to do.
Commissioner Fishman stated that that's not a viable alternative. As far as his personal opinion goes from listening to both sides, he respects the fact that we have a gentleman that is directly impacted by a noise issue. Mazirow is indicating his thoughts that he's simply asking for is some consideration of having the courts moved to the west. His original request was for 100' and thinks he's showing some good faith by further requesting 75'. So from his point of view, they should try to work out some compromise.
Commissioner Sigler noted that none of these people want to come back here in six months and these guys seeing the potential for their courts to be moved out another 50' should put enough incentive for them to keep the noise level down. So his feeling is let's just have these guys work it out and see what they can come up with.
- Mazirow (approached the podium again)
- - stated that Commissioner Sigler's comment has merit. He proposes that the matter be put off calendar for a period of six months and see what happens. Right now he doesn't see the votes on the commission even going to 50'. If the decision would be proposed for six months then we could see how it goes and he's have an opportunity to further investigate some of the physiological factors that have been raised here.
Commissioner Fishman stated that Mazirow is seeking a six-month courtesy of sorts to try to work with the players who are here and the people who frequent 29th Street strand courts and see if the noise issue can be reviewed again.
City Manager Burrell stated that you can continue a hearing but because it's this long, six months, there should be a re-notice so that both the players and users of the courts, as well as the residents, are informed.
Motion by Commissioner Francis to continue this issue to the October 5th 2004 meeting.
Commissioner Sigler seconded the motion.
Ayes: Commissioners Fishman, Bell, Francis, and Sigler
Nays: None
Abstain: None
Absent: Hollander
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- P.J. Du Wors, 16 The Strand
- - expressed regrets from his roommate, Tim Henning, who wrote the initial letter to the board, that he couldn't be here tonight due to a death in the family. P.J. stated that we've discussed the benefits of volleyball enough tonight. The main issue here is that there is a shortage of volleyball courts south of the Hermosa Pier. Whenever they go out to play they're always waiting and this includes plenty of residents who feel there is a need. They would like to request that two courts be put in between Herondo and Linden St. As he heard before there could only be two courts per block and for clarification there are no courts there now. He also stated that there used to be more courts in that general area but approximately 10 years ago were moved due to storm concerns and there was a sandbar put up. Afterwards they just weren't reinstalled. He thinks the demand is certainly there and would like the Commission to consider adding two courts.
- Yvonne Bernard, corner of Linden and 30th St.
- - asked that the courts not be installed. She stated that there is so much noise already and it's not the best area at this point. There is a vacant store behind her, a bit of a homeless issue and right now to add two volleyball courts to an already high-traffic and noise area would be detrimental to the people who live there. She stated that there is no one else is here because of the same situation as Mazirow. No one lives there most of the time, one house is in escrow and there are no permanent property owners there, just a few random renters and a few places for sale. Parking is another issue and she is already shooing people away from the back of her house. It is not her nature to have to ask people to move their cars, run around to find people, put notes and she has never had anybody towed but these are issues that as a property owner she deals with on a weekend basis. In the summer it's a daily basis. She feels that these two volleyball courts are only going to affect where she works, the building where she lives and everybody else that lives south of there, mainly the property owners.
- Arnold, Torrance
- - stated that he spends approximately 5 days a week in Hermosa playing volleyball and appreciates the last speaker's problem with parking, but we all know the parking problems in Hermosa. He thinks the addition of these two courts will help ease the burden of the volleyball courts that are just south of Pier on 8th St.. Three years ago there were roughly 10 courts south of Pier between 8th St and Pier Ave. and just recently it's gone down to 6 courts. Adding these courts, of course, would take away from the congestion on Pier Avenue, on the Strand area near the Pier (which is a hot spot for all sorts of problems with the police). He feels it will help the businesses to the south of the Pier by bring more professional people, volleyball players, and consumers of sandwiches and all sorts of stuff to appreciate and use those shops. The volleyball players have never been the direct problem for the homelessness or the abuse of the beach. These courts would fall into the 50' limit and would not hinder any business or even residents in that area.
- Maggie McCurdy, 16 The Strand
- - stated that the current courts are between Linden and 2nd and they're asking to put courts between Herondo and Linden. If two more courts were put closer to where they live, it would essentially alleviate some of the traffic that is currently closer to her house.
- Yvonne Bernard, (approached the podium again)
- - stated that she lives and works there, just about 24 hours a day, every single day. It will create more traffic because more people will be going south and we've already got a lot of school kids the she thinks is really awesome that use that area. The sea institute in Redondo attracts a lot of kids who use it and that's really great. She stated that she doesn't think volleyball players have anything to do with the homeless. It's more about the noise and parking and it will increase the traffic south. As far as bringing any revenue to any of the businesses there, that may happen in the future, but right now there's Mickey's just north of the court and as far as anything else, there's no other business. There's one liquor store there and they don't have sandwiches. There is enough going on in the area already. As far as saying that it's going to pull away from the Pier, that's ridiculous. Everybody who goes down to the Pier, goes there because they want the bars, they want the fun, they want the action. They're not going to come to south Hermosa to take any stress off of what goes on down there.
- Arnold, Torrance (approached the podium again)
- - stated that he believed that Ms. Bernard was correct. Some of the people that go to the Pier to party and drink go there for that reason. The volleyball players go where there are courts. There are no courts south of Pier. There are two courts south of 2nd St. He stated they're asking for two more courts because he thinks it's fair. If there is an increase in traffic, there should be an increase in business. If the people are there, they're going to use the initial conveniences right there in that area. He is just asking for the equal opportunity to have courts in that area to play. Hermosa has quite a bit of tourist activity and he doesn't think these courts are going to hurt that. He also stated that there is a public walk just south of Herondo St. so it wouldn't be all street parking if people did drive to the area to play volleyball.
- P.J. Du Wors, 16 The Strand (approached the podium again)
- - stated that there is a public walk and in terms of people coming to play volleyball, whether they're walking or if they're coming from inland, he thinks the natural tendency is to just move further north until you can find courts. There's definitely a demand. People wait a long time for these courts and it's only going to get busier in the summer, so hopefully by adding these courts more Hermosa residents will be able to enjoy the beach.
- Arnold, Torrance (approached the podium again)
- - stated that they currently play wherever there's courts available. For quite a while they could play 8th St. all the time. The number of people playing volleyball has gone up. People have found out about Hermosa and everyone wants a piece. Property is so expensive, that's why there are so many renters in Hermosa. His group is moving wherever the open courts are available. It has nothing to do with territorialism or anything of that nature. They just need more room to play, more room to enjoy the beach.
Commission Fishman closed the public hearing and thanked all respondents for their comments and suggestions and asked for comments from the Commission.
Commissioner Sigler stated that he understands that volleyball is more of a social thing than athletic and more people are wanting to play volleyball on the beach and come in conflict with longtime players who claim "their court". There are not enough courts for all those people. He stated that he's on the beach two or three nights a week and Saturdays and Sundays and he doesn't hear a lot of noise and doesn't think it would be that significant. He doesn't see a problem concerning the business and parking aspects.
Commissioner Bell stated that he was on the Strand Saturday and talked to some people where the courts would go and they didn't seem to have any problem with it.
Commissioner Francis also walked to the Strand and does realize that if a homeowner has an issue from volleyball courts, they do definitely have a forum to bring that issue to anytime in the future. He stated that spends a lot of time at the beach and has never seen (in general terms) anything other than the volleyball players in this community bring something positive to the community for the most part. So he would be in favor of adding these courts.
Commissioner Fishman asked the staff's opinion of players utilizing temporary volleyball courts and if something like this presently exists.
Department Supervisor Lynn stated that the only caveat is temporary courts need to be removed each night. So it would require players to set up a temporary court whenever they want to then remove it before night falls. She stated that it's an ordnance that equipment of that nature needs to be removed by nightfall, but it is permitted on the beach.
Public Works Superintendent Flaherty stated that there are at least two locations every summer, especially at Longfellow and the north end, where the homeowners come out with their temporary courts. They play all weekend and they bring them in. You don't even know they were there on Monday morning.
Commissioner Fishman stated that he is always thinking of options for making both residents and players happy, that is glad that there is the possibility of some temporary courts. He stated that he is also leaning towards having the courts going in only from the standpoint that one voice should not dictate the ability for people to use the court and deal with the noise issue. If the courtesies don't happen with the noise issue, then he would encourage residents to let us know these issues are such that we have to take a look at this.
City Manager Burrell stated that all ordnances are on our website.
Motion by Commissioner Francis to approve the application for installation of two courts at 16 Strand.
Commissioner Sigler seconded the motion.
Ayes: Commissioners Fishman, Bell, Francis, and Sigler
Nays: None
Abstain: None
Absent: Hollander
Staff Report(s)
Receive and file.
City Manager Burrell stated that we took the comments on Fort Lots of Fun Park equipment and Edith Rodaway from the public hearing a few months ago, and the resurfacing needs to be budgeted. The third item was the lawn bowling green. They are being taken forward in the budget and there's funding for all of them. They will be set out in order, the idea being that we would have a listing. As the park development fees paid by people building new homes and so forth, we could pick the project up and do it rather than waiting the whole cycle since we know what your recommendations are.
Commissioner Fishman, commenting on Rodaway/Friendship Park, stated that the residents have made it known that they really wanted to keep the grass there. There also was discussion about the potential of having two basketball courts there to handle the usage of so many players. He proposes a second court going in a north/south direction instead of the one that is going in and east/west direction. Also concerning funding issues, there might be some vendors that would sponsor the dog mitt dispensers that were discussed.
City Manager Burrell stated that they are in the budget. They're going in many more places and are quite effective. The dispensers are not particularly expensive; it's the bags. We would like 30 locations so a sponsorship program would be great.
Public Works Superintendent Flaherty stated we have eight (8) dispensers and in the last 18 months we've gone through 47,000 bags.
City Manager Burrell stated that when they talk to Council they will be taking a look at in order to keep the budget balanced and move into the future with it.
Commissioner Fishman proposed to get busy and see if we could get more sponsorship for the bags and put their name on the box.
City Manager Burrell mentioned that the action the commission took in Jan. and Feb. in reviewing the fees, charges and the way we do business in the Recreation Department, virtually everyone of those items has been included in the budget and when you see next year's program it's a dramatic increase in terms of balancing the general funds costs to the fees and charges that we're doing. Some of them have sort of been implemented and are on their way and others, the council will have to make their final decision on.
Commissioner Fishman stated that it is important to note that through the establishment of organizations such as "Friends of the Park" they are trying very hard to generate additional income to replace the equipment and do other projects. They recently contracted with a company to solicit grants for park improvements. This is a neighborhood group taking the initiative to get funding for our city parks. So we should commend these groups.
Commissioner's Reports
Hermosa Arts Foundation
No report as Commissioner Hollander was absent.
Friends of the Park
Commissioner Fishman reported that they are now linking up with a grant company to help find some funding. They have now aligned forces with the lawn bowlers as they have similar needs. The next meeting of the Friends of the Park will be next Wednesday at 5:30 in Room 4 of the Community Center.
Museum Subcommittee
Commissioner Fishman stated that their next meeting is Wednesday, May 20th at 6:30 behind the Community Center. They are planning on some fundraising activities during the summer and are still raising money for the expansion project that is ongoing. Through the second grant that they received, they are physically close to bringing in a consultant who will work on collections management as well as some other issues to help get them more organized to move ahead. They have also contracted with a non-profit company who is trying to secure grants for them and has sent out five grants at this time, including Toyota and Mobil/Exxon.
Sunset Concert Committee
Commissioner Francis turned over the report to Department Supervisor Lynn who reported that we have received $20,000. We have a $10,000 sponsorship from Hawthorne Savings and another one from a magazine. Commissioner Francis stated that he took a packet to the new Union Bank of California and has spoken to Commissioner Hollander but she hasn't committed Wells Fargo as yet.
Surfer's Walk of Fame
Commissioner Sigler reported that they had a great meeting about a week ago and have finalized the nomination form and the process in which people can nominate people to be admitted to the walk of fame. The forms must be submitted by May 17th in order to be nominated for 2004. Any requests after the 17th will be held over until 2005. As of today we have 15 nominations and the actual induction date has not been decided yet.
Items Requested by Commissioners
Commissioner Bell received a note from Mr. Jeff Duclos regarding the landscaping and pesticide free zone that we've been doing and reminding us that putting out to bid for contractors was coming up this spring. He was inquiring how that was going.
Steve Burrell stated that the contract was renewable and the contractor was basically the same price. Included in the budget is the additional cost for doing the pesticide-free area and if that gets approved then that will one of the things when we're dealing with the maintenance program. It will hinge on our financial decision, approximately $25,000 additional and the determination will be made at the time of the budget.
Commissioner Fishman has a request from Mayor Yoon to assist in a Centennial committee as a member of the Parks and Recreation Committee. What I would ask is if there could be a second commissioner involved as well to assist. Commissioner Bell stated that he is willing to assist.
Other Matters
N/A
Public Comment:
N/A
Motion: "To Adjourn"
Sigler/Francis - All Ayes
Adjournment: 9:15 PM
